The Beginning
Happy New to me......only consolation is to just sms my friends NY greeting..pathetic....Although i m in party mood ..just that i m down with flu and headache...Wat a good time to start a day.......
Just back from watching Lord Of The Rings at Jurong Entertainment Centre.....Although I m truly fan of special effect, i found that this movie really don't impressed me much than the second one....... So many questions occurred on my mind? But now doubts have been cleared.
Where does Frodo go at the end, and why? (obviously the single most confusing part of the movie)
Frodo goes to Valinor, the land across the sea that the elves are emigrating to. His trauma over carrying the ring, plus his wounds from the Nazgul blade on Weathertop and Shelob’s sting, cannot fully heal in Middle Earth. He goes to Valinor, aka the Undying Lands, which is sort of like a paradise, in order to find peace. Normally only elves and wizards, aka immortals are allowed to go (it used to be just another part of the map, but when the earth shifted from flat to round, it was "removed" from the "real" world (anyone read Mists of Avalon?)). But Frodo gets special passage because he’s a ringbearer (same deal with Bilbo...not the pain part, but the ringbearer-as-ticket part). He does not become immortal himself, although there is some indication that time passes differently there, so that he perhaps lived longer than normal.
Why didn’t the eagles just bring the ring to Mt. Doom?
Several reasons. One, Sauron would definitely notice a giant eagle flying into Mordor. They're not invincible. Two (per the directors commentary of the Fellowship dvd), the eagles had very specific reasons for doing things. They weren't just there to be the carrier pigeons of Middle Earth.
The third and most elegant explanation I've gotten comes from regular poster Lord_Natrone, who has allowed me to use his text here: "The Eagles are the servants of Manwe, Lord of the Valar. Their intervention is assumed to be through his grace. The Valar seem to have taken a minimal intervention approach to Middle-earth in the Third Age, and although they have interest in Sauron being defeated they won't just knock him down and be done with it. For this reason the Eagles are occasionally used to tip the scales back into balance for the good guys, but they are not at the call of the Free Peoples to solve their problems
Where were the elves and dwarves during all of the battles? Why didn't they come help?
Per poster Diamond-Eye: "The Elves and Dwarves were fighting their own battles. While the siege of Gondor is going own Sauron is also launching assaults on Lorien and Erebor, or the Lonely Mountain. After Sauron's defeat these forces were basically distraught at the destruction of their master and faltered in their attacks. The inhabitants of these lands, spurred on by the news of Sauron's defeat, regrouped and routed their attackers." I would add that in the books, Legolas makes a point of this at Helms Deep (in the books, no elves except for Legolas are at Helms Deep, which is different from the film). He laments that his own people will not come to help, but then points out that they have their own battles to fight. The dwarves and elves aren't just sitting pretty in their homes -- they have wars on their own fronts
Why weren't there orcs guarding the entrance of Mt. Doom?
One of our heroes' major advantages here is that it honestly never occurs to Sauron that anyone will try to destroy the ring. He knows how weak the hearts of men are, and expects them to use it, not destroy it. So he feels no need to guard a mountain that's already well within his well-protected borders.
Why isn't Gandalf more "wizardy"? Where are his cool powers?
Gandalf is a Maia (like a spirit) in the order of the Istari, which is a group of Maiar (including Saruman) that was sent to Middle Earth to help guide its residents. But they did not come without rules. They were sent to "train, advise, instruct, arouse the hearts and minds of those threatened by Sauron to a resistance with their own strengths". They were not permitted to display their powers in full force. It should also be noted that Peter Jackson has stated that he's not crazy about fireworks-type magic powers (nothing to do with the actual fireworks in the first movie). He prefers it to be more subtle.
Did Gandalf hold a ring of power?
Yes, Gandalf was the keeper of Narya, the ring of fire. This was one of the three rings given to the elves (in the prologue to the first film). You can see it on his finger in the last scene. For anyone wondering why it wasn't there before, the rings were invisible when worn while they had power, but when the one ring was destroyed, they became just regular old rings, and thus could be seen.
Why did Gandalf have an elvish ring when he was not an elf, you ask? Well, he wasn't the original owner. It went to Gil-Galad, and then to Cirdan, both elves. Cirdan was the one who gave it to Gandalf.
Gil-Galad also held Vilya, the ring of air, which he gave to Elrond. Galadriel is the keeper of Nenya, the ring of water. Anyone who has seen the extended version of the first movie has seen her show this to Frodo (supposedly the reason he can see it, even though it's invisible to most, is because he has worn the one ring and has seen the eye of Sauron, or because he is a ringbearer in the first place). So basically, that ship that carried the three of them was significant because it was bearing all three elven rings across the sea.
Why couldn't Sauron control the elven rings?
Sauron could control the rings while he wore the one ring. Once the ring was parted from him, however (and he was "killed"), the elves were able to wear and use their rings (NOTE: this is totally different from my previous answer, which you should just disregard).
What's the deal with Arwen's mortality?
Arwen gives up her immortality to be with Aragorn. Tolkien makes that fairly clear, I think (it's in the appendices). Some think this is because she is of a line that was "half-elven" (it's a long story -- both of her parents are elves; it just has to do with her bloodline), and thus she was given a choice that most elves don't have. Others think that elves just give up their mortality when they choose to marry mortals. Regardless, if she had remained immortal, she would not have been able to be with Aragorn after death: men who die go on to the next plane of existence (i.e. heaven), while elves, even when they "die" on Middle Earth, are tied to Aman (the world) until the end of time (elves who die just go to Valinor -- they don't go on to another world). That's one of the reasons her father was so against it -- because he would quite literally never see his daughter again, even after death. And that's (we think) why no ship would take her to Valinor anymore. She's no longer immortal. She has made that sacrifice for the chance to be with Aragorn after death (provided it's a choice -- if you go with the inevitability theory, it's a bit different).
Are Arwen and Aragorn related?
Yes, they are cousins many times removed. Aragorn is a descendent of Elrond's brother (of course, many generations down).
How the heck did Shelob's stinger get through Frodo's mithril vest?
Good question. In the books she is described as stinging Frodo on the neck, so that's not really an issue. But many people here have pointed out that in the film it looks more like she stings him in the chest (I don't remember myself...I may have had my eyes closed at that point). So either it's just ambiguous, and she actually stings him below the vest (let your imagination run wild), or it's a goof. [EDIT: Or she stings him in the neck, which is how another movie-goer has interpreted it. This is one for the slo-mo action on the dvd, I think.] [EDIT 2: There are two wounds on Frodo's chest when we see him in Cirith Ungol. One is undoubtedly his Weathertop wound. The other has been interpreted as being from when the troll spears him in Moria (although I've always been unclear on how much of a "wound" that would have been -- wouldn't it just be a big bruise?). Anyway, you could interpret that as the sting as well.]
How does Sam get Sting and the elvish light before confronting Shelob?
I don't remember exactly where, but at some point Frodo drops the light. When he's caught in the spider web, and hacking his way through to Gollum, right before he makes it through, Sting gets caught in the web, and he has to leave it behind (it's hanging there after he runs through). Presumably Sam picks up both as he follows Frodo's path.
How was Eowyn able to kill the Witch-king?
This is a biggie that people come up with different theories on. First is that she was able to do it because she was a woman, not a man, since the Witch-king is obviously convinced that no man can kill him (this is made extra confusing with her response "I am no man"). From what I've gathered on this board, the Witch-king's source of that information was a prediction by an elf called Glorfindel, who said that he would not be killed by a man (which of course, he wasn't). So it wasn't that she was able to kill him in a way in which a man would have been unable -- it's just that she fulfilled a prophecy.
There's also contention about the role of Merry in this whole thing. Merry (we think, although I've heard different opinions on this as well) stabbed the witchking in the leg with a Westernesse blade (the one Aragorn gave him on Weathertop in the first film), which was forged specifically to fight against the Witch-king (I believe before he actually became the Witch-king). Tolkien doesn't specify, but the theory is that this is a special blade that somehow rends the essence, or the fabric, if you will (not the clothing, but rather the force that holds him together) of the witchking, which is what makes Eowyn ultimately able to kill him with her plain old Rohirric blade.
It should be noted that this is a contentious point, especially since some people think in the movie that Merry stabbed him not with his Westernesse blade (there is even contention about whether or not he was given a Westernesse blade in the film) but with the Rohirric sword he got from Eowyn. Other people think it's possible that he used the elvish blade given to him by Galadriel. While this wouldn't have fit with Tolkien, i.e. there's no particular reason that an elvish blade would be successful, perhaps the director was trying to simplify things by fudging it and indicating that the elvish blade has a special magic to it. Who knows. (EDIT: this idea was nixed by Lady_Eowyn, who glued her eyes to the screen to determine this exact issue and decided he used the Rohirric blade). We'll have to wait again for the dvd so we can slo-mo that scene and really look at the weapon.
Why Aragorn didn't use the army of the dead at the Black Gate?
Our best theories are that either he wanted to keep his word or that since the dead were cursed for not coming to the aid of Gondor originally they can only be used for Gondor's defense but not in an attack made BY Gondor. (per Diamond-Eye) It should also be noted that at that moment, Aragorn didn't actually know yet that he would be marching on the Black Gate (as far as we know).
Just back from watching Lord Of The Rings at Jurong Entertainment Centre.....Although I m truly fan of special effect, i found that this movie really don't impressed me much than the second one....... So many questions occurred on my mind? But now doubts have been cleared.
Where does Frodo go at the end, and why? (obviously the single most confusing part of the movie)
Frodo goes to Valinor, the land across the sea that the elves are emigrating to. His trauma over carrying the ring, plus his wounds from the Nazgul blade on Weathertop and Shelob’s sting, cannot fully heal in Middle Earth. He goes to Valinor, aka the Undying Lands, which is sort of like a paradise, in order to find peace. Normally only elves and wizards, aka immortals are allowed to go (it used to be just another part of the map, but when the earth shifted from flat to round, it was "removed" from the "real" world (anyone read Mists of Avalon?)). But Frodo gets special passage because he’s a ringbearer (same deal with Bilbo...not the pain part, but the ringbearer-as-ticket part). He does not become immortal himself, although there is some indication that time passes differently there, so that he perhaps lived longer than normal.
Why didn’t the eagles just bring the ring to Mt. Doom?
Several reasons. One, Sauron would definitely notice a giant eagle flying into Mordor. They're not invincible. Two (per the directors commentary of the Fellowship dvd), the eagles had very specific reasons for doing things. They weren't just there to be the carrier pigeons of Middle Earth.
The third and most elegant explanation I've gotten comes from regular poster Lord_Natrone, who has allowed me to use his text here: "The Eagles are the servants of Manwe, Lord of the Valar. Their intervention is assumed to be through his grace. The Valar seem to have taken a minimal intervention approach to Middle-earth in the Third Age, and although they have interest in Sauron being defeated they won't just knock him down and be done with it. For this reason the Eagles are occasionally used to tip the scales back into balance for the good guys, but they are not at the call of the Free Peoples to solve their problems
Where were the elves and dwarves during all of the battles? Why didn't they come help?
Per poster Diamond-Eye: "The Elves and Dwarves were fighting their own battles. While the siege of Gondor is going own Sauron is also launching assaults on Lorien and Erebor, or the Lonely Mountain. After Sauron's defeat these forces were basically distraught at the destruction of their master and faltered in their attacks. The inhabitants of these lands, spurred on by the news of Sauron's defeat, regrouped and routed their attackers." I would add that in the books, Legolas makes a point of this at Helms Deep (in the books, no elves except for Legolas are at Helms Deep, which is different from the film). He laments that his own people will not come to help, but then points out that they have their own battles to fight. The dwarves and elves aren't just sitting pretty in their homes -- they have wars on their own fronts
Why weren't there orcs guarding the entrance of Mt. Doom?
One of our heroes' major advantages here is that it honestly never occurs to Sauron that anyone will try to destroy the ring. He knows how weak the hearts of men are, and expects them to use it, not destroy it. So he feels no need to guard a mountain that's already well within his well-protected borders.
Why isn't Gandalf more "wizardy"? Where are his cool powers?
Gandalf is a Maia (like a spirit) in the order of the Istari, which is a group of Maiar (including Saruman) that was sent to Middle Earth to help guide its residents. But they did not come without rules. They were sent to "train, advise, instruct, arouse the hearts and minds of those threatened by Sauron to a resistance with their own strengths". They were not permitted to display their powers in full force. It should also be noted that Peter Jackson has stated that he's not crazy about fireworks-type magic powers (nothing to do with the actual fireworks in the first movie). He prefers it to be more subtle.
Did Gandalf hold a ring of power?
Yes, Gandalf was the keeper of Narya, the ring of fire. This was one of the three rings given to the elves (in the prologue to the first film). You can see it on his finger in the last scene. For anyone wondering why it wasn't there before, the rings were invisible when worn while they had power, but when the one ring was destroyed, they became just regular old rings, and thus could be seen.
Why did Gandalf have an elvish ring when he was not an elf, you ask? Well, he wasn't the original owner. It went to Gil-Galad, and then to Cirdan, both elves. Cirdan was the one who gave it to Gandalf.
Gil-Galad also held Vilya, the ring of air, which he gave to Elrond. Galadriel is the keeper of Nenya, the ring of water. Anyone who has seen the extended version of the first movie has seen her show this to Frodo (supposedly the reason he can see it, even though it's invisible to most, is because he has worn the one ring and has seen the eye of Sauron, or because he is a ringbearer in the first place). So basically, that ship that carried the three of them was significant because it was bearing all three elven rings across the sea.
Why couldn't Sauron control the elven rings?
Sauron could control the rings while he wore the one ring. Once the ring was parted from him, however (and he was "killed"), the elves were able to wear and use their rings (NOTE: this is totally different from my previous answer, which you should just disregard).
What's the deal with Arwen's mortality?
Arwen gives up her immortality to be with Aragorn. Tolkien makes that fairly clear, I think (it's in the appendices). Some think this is because she is of a line that was "half-elven" (it's a long story -- both of her parents are elves; it just has to do with her bloodline), and thus she was given a choice that most elves don't have. Others think that elves just give up their mortality when they choose to marry mortals. Regardless, if she had remained immortal, she would not have been able to be with Aragorn after death: men who die go on to the next plane of existence (i.e. heaven), while elves, even when they "die" on Middle Earth, are tied to Aman (the world) until the end of time (elves who die just go to Valinor -- they don't go on to another world). That's one of the reasons her father was so against it -- because he would quite literally never see his daughter again, even after death. And that's (we think) why no ship would take her to Valinor anymore. She's no longer immortal. She has made that sacrifice for the chance to be with Aragorn after death (provided it's a choice -- if you go with the inevitability theory, it's a bit different).
Are Arwen and Aragorn related?
Yes, they are cousins many times removed. Aragorn is a descendent of Elrond's brother (of course, many generations down).
How the heck did Shelob's stinger get through Frodo's mithril vest?
Good question. In the books she is described as stinging Frodo on the neck, so that's not really an issue. But many people here have pointed out that in the film it looks more like she stings him in the chest (I don't remember myself...I may have had my eyes closed at that point). So either it's just ambiguous, and she actually stings him below the vest (let your imagination run wild), or it's a goof. [EDIT: Or she stings him in the neck, which is how another movie-goer has interpreted it. This is one for the slo-mo action on the dvd, I think.] [EDIT 2: There are two wounds on Frodo's chest when we see him in Cirith Ungol. One is undoubtedly his Weathertop wound. The other has been interpreted as being from when the troll spears him in Moria (although I've always been unclear on how much of a "wound" that would have been -- wouldn't it just be a big bruise?). Anyway, you could interpret that as the sting as well.]
How does Sam get Sting and the elvish light before confronting Shelob?
I don't remember exactly where, but at some point Frodo drops the light. When he's caught in the spider web, and hacking his way through to Gollum, right before he makes it through, Sting gets caught in the web, and he has to leave it behind (it's hanging there after he runs through). Presumably Sam picks up both as he follows Frodo's path.
How was Eowyn able to kill the Witch-king?
This is a biggie that people come up with different theories on. First is that she was able to do it because she was a woman, not a man, since the Witch-king is obviously convinced that no man can kill him (this is made extra confusing with her response "I am no man"). From what I've gathered on this board, the Witch-king's source of that information was a prediction by an elf called Glorfindel, who said that he would not be killed by a man (which of course, he wasn't). So it wasn't that she was able to kill him in a way in which a man would have been unable -- it's just that she fulfilled a prophecy.
There's also contention about the role of Merry in this whole thing. Merry (we think, although I've heard different opinions on this as well) stabbed the witchking in the leg with a Westernesse blade (the one Aragorn gave him on Weathertop in the first film), which was forged specifically to fight against the Witch-king (I believe before he actually became the Witch-king). Tolkien doesn't specify, but the theory is that this is a special blade that somehow rends the essence, or the fabric, if you will (not the clothing, but rather the force that holds him together) of the witchking, which is what makes Eowyn ultimately able to kill him with her plain old Rohirric blade.
It should be noted that this is a contentious point, especially since some people think in the movie that Merry stabbed him not with his Westernesse blade (there is even contention about whether or not he was given a Westernesse blade in the film) but with the Rohirric sword he got from Eowyn. Other people think it's possible that he used the elvish blade given to him by Galadriel. While this wouldn't have fit with Tolkien, i.e. there's no particular reason that an elvish blade would be successful, perhaps the director was trying to simplify things by fudging it and indicating that the elvish blade has a special magic to it. Who knows. (EDIT: this idea was nixed by Lady_Eowyn, who glued her eyes to the screen to determine this exact issue and decided he used the Rohirric blade). We'll have to wait again for the dvd so we can slo-mo that scene and really look at the weapon.
Why Aragorn didn't use the army of the dead at the Black Gate?
Our best theories are that either he wanted to keep his word or that since the dead were cursed for not coming to the aid of Gondor originally they can only be used for Gondor's defense but not in an attack made BY Gondor. (per Diamond-Eye) It should also be noted that at that moment, Aragorn didn't actually know yet that he would be marching on the Black Gate (as far as we know).
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